"They Should Be In Fucking Jail"
This appeared on Real Time with Bill Maher last Friday. The user who posted it on YouTube condensed it a little, but the essence of the exchange is in tact. Watch it. It is short and to the point.
Hollywood elitist?
If any of the Democratic candidates talk like this in 2008 they will receive at least 50 million votes on top of the ones who are already "in the bag." Just seek out the entire clip...or preferably watch the entire show - it was excellent...and observe how the politician on the panel, Democrat Harold Ford Jr, answers Maher's question. His rhetoric of "investigations" and excuse making ring completely hollow while Penn's outrage is actually true to what millions of us righteously think and feel.
So, I ask again - Hollywood elitist?
No...
This is what a real American sounds like. And that American is saying what THIS REAL AMERICAN thinks as well.
Shame on anybody who falls for the Fox bullshit spin.
Larry B.
posted by Larry B | 12:11 AM
10 Comments:
A little confusing this posting. Please clarify it a bit. When you say, "If any of the Democratic candidates talk like this in 2008, they will receive..." Talk like who? Are you referring to what Penn said, or to what Ford said? And since Ford is a democrat, are you saying that what he says is opposite of how Penn feels? Reading this post, makes me think that what you are saying is that what Ford says is hollow, (and maybe this is why he lost the last election in Tennessee after he was considered a shoo-in), and what Penn says is more true and to the point. And considering Penn's life outside of the camera, it is extremely diffcult to literally take anything he says, as being something that others should look up to, and to say that what Penn says is "actually true to what millions of us righteously think and feel," is a bit absurd. Who is speaking for these "millions of others?" Well, that's not the point of my posting. I'm just trying to figure out if what you are saying is that what Ford said means nothing, but what Penn said is "righteous." Just a bit confusing in your post. Unless, maybe I am the only one confused. Thanks.
at this moment, Bush's approval rating is 28%, let's keep pushing for impeachment,
right wing rhetoric includes the right wing saying that Bush has not committed any impeachable offenses, Bush took the country to war under false pretenses and the right says Bush has not committed any impeachable offenses,
Bush should be impeached,
and Cheney should be impeached too,
larry m.
Yes, anonymous, you're the only reader of this blog who is confused. Seriously. I think Larry's point is pretty fucking clear myself. Whether or not Penn is someone "to look up to" is truly irrelevant. Here's an analogy: Aristotle was a bad man. He was a racist, a misogynist and unapologetic elitist. But he made some good contributions in the area of philosophy.
Understand? Let me make it clearer. Ford's response is-as the blogger points out-RHETORIC. IT DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. It's the sort of thing that people with public personae say so that they look good-i.e., blandly inoffensive to the greatest number of sheep-whether they believe it or not.
Probably those who go in for such blatant RHETORIC don't have any very clearly articulated values (even in their own minds) besides self-interest.
I believe that is the point. Penn may not be perfect-and he doesn't have a spin team connected enough to cover it up. In that sense he's a great representative for the vast majority of people on this planet let along this country. And he's saying WHAT HE ACTUALLY THINKS rather than giving bland lip service to centrist values that I suspect, in reality, almost nobody identifies with but very many espouse out of a desire for stability at any cost.
Get it now?
Larry,
I don't think the voice of America is a quivery voiced actor whose most memorable role (to them) was Spiccoli in Fast Times. As for the 28% approval rating, I assure you the other 72% aren't entirely to the left. Fully half of all convservatives don't approve of Bush. (Which by my math takes us to 55% of the country is to Fords right) The dissaproving conservatives thinks either Bush should go signicantly further (Iran, Syria, Lebanon) or think yes its a mistake but the Dems would be worse. We will be in Iraq for at least 15 more years and no one of either party in this election will change that. I assure you more children live in Iraq than before the war and they have manifestly greater health.
Joe K
Hey Joe
Maybe Penn is not "the voice of America," a claim I did not make. All I said was that he was a real American stating an opinion that millions of REAL AMERICANS…including myself…feel. And, I might add, rightfully so because no matter HOW you think the war is going, there seems to be little doubt we were put there under false pretenses made by the current administration.
But if Penn has no validity, then who is the voice of America? These idiots, simpletons, sexual repressives and all-around assholes who are in this administration? Would we, as a people, find it more insulting to be represented by someone who is obviously passionate, engaged and intelligent or by a shit-kicking moron, who has absolutely no ambition, drive, empathy, competence or brains?
And if the quivering bothers us…Christ…how can we get through one of Bush's press conferences where the man stands there looking like a barely evolved sap, unable to put simple concepts and axioms together in the English language without stumbling over his own tongue?
I think the most used word in that man's vocabulary is "uh."
But as one of the anons said in my defense, my point was not to say we should "look up to Sean Penn" the same way I don't think the other anon's point was that we should look up to Bush, Cheney, et. al. (The people who "should be in fucking jail.") At least I hope to Jesus that is not what they meant…or, actually, what they do for that matter.
No, my point was that Penn, for being outspoken in what he believes, is categorized and ridiculed as a "Hollywood Elite" which implies he is completely out of touch with the mainstream country. I feel the same way, am I an elitist? If I am could someone please tell my creditors…if they know my new status, maybe they will stop calling me.
This whole notion that because you're involved in producing artistic culture means your opinions and observations are completely off the wall and should be dismissed is complete bullshit, perpetrated for years by the Republican Party because their reactionary base is about status quo and conformity and art, in general, is about exploration and understanding. I think that the overwhelming majority of this country is a little of both, and over the last 27 years or so the (successful) strategy has been to force people to "pick a side" leading to the abandonment of science, the return of the black list and the castration of our Constitution…to name a few of the actions the majority seems to accept with token protest.
Of course, another reason we are suppose to mistrust actors is because they do not support the Republican Party. But did you ever notice how these hypocritical pricks, the ones that rail against Hollywood, have no problem whatsoever parading Bruce Willis, Clint Eastwood, James Woods and Arnold Schwartzenegger around whenever the opportunity arises? I guess these stupid actors can have a meaningful opinion afterall…as long as it's the right one.
Then this notion, that actors (Except the ones who like Republicans) don't know nothing because they act…an idea that is just plain ridiculous…is consistently drummed into the public consciousness by assholes like Malkin, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc., ironically people who REALLY do not know anything except how to get high, laid or drunk which is what they accuse Hollywood of doing in the first place. I mean really. I find it beyond absurd that we are to believe a bunch of super rich fucks…talking heads whose lives I can assure you are very different than yours and mine in both social activity and bank account girth…accusing others of out of touch elitism…whatever the Hell that means anyway.
Then after we are convinced of artist's incompetence, we are told that they have no connection with the common man because they make a lot of money, they live in insular communities, they're into weird religions, they take drugs and have promiscuous sex.
And after all this is smugly, repetitiously, stated, couched in the most vile terms, they…and I find this the most disturbing of all…sing the praises of George W Bush, as a guy you would want to have a fucking beer with!
George W Bush…A man whose father held every position in the United States government that there is to hold; Whose grandfather was a Senator; Who was given every job he ever had through his family's wealth and connections; Who failed at EVERY job he ever had with the possible exception of his governorship of Texas due to his limited responsibility on account of the Texas Constitution; A man who believes that Jesus Christ talks to him and consults with his "higher father" when making decisions that eventually cost the lives of countless numbers of non-elitists.
Oh, and he also was a degenerate womanizing coke fiend and drunkard who only stayed out of jail because his Dad "fixed" the charges.
Yeah...a real fucking "down-to-earth" Man of the People.
I would take Penn over this jerk ANY day of the week.
Nice to hear from you Joe and thanks for the comments everybody!
Joe K,
I think you forgot to tack on to your sweeping statement "...the Dems would be worse" a definitive "So there!" punctuated by a raspberry. It would polish your argument considerably. I know this is probably hopeless, but why don't you ladle some of your patented Joe K. wisdom over our poor, parched, in-need-of-enlightenment, scalps by explaining exactly why the Dems would be worse. And I'm going to give you a nipple twister every time you use one of the right-wing talking points, so use care.
Oh, and you forgot to insert into your other equally well-considered statement: "I assure you more children live in Iraq than before the war and they have manifestly greater health." the words "with missing limbs". Basically the problem is, with those cute, little, now "liberated" Iraqi children: since 2003, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands (depending on which numbers you use) have lost limbs due to inconvenient gunfire, explosives, or gangreen - a lot of that from the friendliest fire in the west, the US of A! If that's "manifestly greater health", sign me up, Joe! What doesn't kill us makes us stronger, right? Those are some strong kids! Ever consider adopting?
My first goal in posting was to get Larry to write more. "Mission Accomplished" so to speak. This response is post a steak dinner w/vino. In that vein I shall continue. Larry not all actors are bad politicians or bad at whatever they choose to be accomplished at outside of art. However if you chose to enter politics then you open yourself up to a response. That said Sean Penn is the left's Leni Riefenstahl. He is a very good actor but his actions in Iraq were repugnant. I have no problem with him doing what he did and would do nothing to restrain him. I will pay to see his films if the subject interests me. I don't blacklist. Who is it that you've identified as being on a blacklist? Michael Moore? Dixie Chicks? They are both commercially successful. If the public chooses not to attend their work, then this is equally their right.
Now then on to Thelonius. Seriously who do you see a conservative voting for Clinton, Edwards or Obama? Generally speaking I would never vote for a Senator as predident. I voted Perot in '92 and the choice between Clinton/Dole/Perot was too bleak to consider in '96. Legislators try to be all things to everyone and that's not leadership material. Lot's of people think this way. Kennedy was the last sitting Senator to get elected and that was close.
I had several paragraphs on Iraq but really this is Larry's blog and I'm too sleepy to edit.
Joe
ps I write because I like to get a sounding board for what I think. I don't think people on this issue really talk. If its not what you want Larry, I'll move along.
Anonymous is correct in pointing out an error in my own parsing of the "...Dems would be worse" line from Joe K's post. I read it as his opinion, and not as what he had intended, the opinion of conservatives. My bad. Thanks for pointing that out. I also agree that responding to these post is probably better done when one is better rested and maybe before the vino.
All in all, this person, George Bush, is the current President of the United States, and nothing will change that. And elected to two terms in office, (or one term if it is continued to be said that he stole the election from Gore). But there was the second presidential election, and this he won, in direct contrast to all the protestors, demonstrators, etc., who said at the time that the demonstrations were unprecedented, and that there was no way that Bush would win a second term, for, if he did, then the "fix" most definitely was in. And Bush was re-elected. Yes I'm sure there are still those individuals, (can we call them conspiracy type individuals?), who will continuously spew forth that Bush did, in fact, steal the second election as well. But I would not be too amiss to state that these are the same individuals who honestly think that the Word Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon, and the Pennsylvania plane crash, were all conducted by the government of the United States.
So Bush is President for another two years. If thigns are so bad and horrible with him as President, then make sure all your votes are utilized and that you put one of your own in there, (i.e.,a Democrat), and then give that person the opportunity to "straighten" things out. And then see where the chips my fall.
By the way, and this is historically known, President Truman's approval rating was below even the 28% that is shown for Bush at the present time. And he wasn't impeached. And "his" bombs did an enormous amount of more damage to human beings, then Bush will ever "accomplish."
I have reason to believe that shortly after the cheney admin seized power in 2001 they created a blacklist of artists in all fields who should be banned from corporate funding. I am a choreographer, the most sought after choreographer in the US until July 2001 when I had three signed commission contracts cancelled without explanation. I have heard from sources in my field that a list was sent out by Karl Rove to all corps that all artists who did not support the admin should be blacklisted. I am preparing a legal case and would like to hear from any other artists whose careers were destroyed by the cheney admin in 2001.
lila101@earthlink.net
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